Bridging Hip-Hop and VFX: The Journey of JR Strickland

Guess who's hopping on the mic this time? It's JR Strickland, a visual effects supervisor and director who has made a name for himself in the hip-hop music video scene. Not your run-of-the-mill journey to success, JR Strickland hustled his way into the VFX world, rubbing elbows with big names like Ariana Grande. Join us as he takes us down memory lane, from being a starry-eyed kid in Chicago suburbs to a key player in the music video business and his initial fixation with visual effects.

We're not just talking past and present here. JR Strickland also shares some invaluable lessons in visual effects and the art of client collaboration. We peel back the layers of his experiences, from being a PA to a VFX supervisor, underscoring the essence of passion, commitment, and understanding in this field. We also dive into the delicate balance between preparing for opportunities and grabbing them, as well as the significance of receiving and comprehending feedback.

But it doesn't end there! Get ready to explore the world of visual effects in hip-hop music videos, the role of real-world references in VFX, and how to get the most bang for your buck in VFX. We do a deep dive into the creation of the 'Kobe With the Fro' music video, revealing the techniques employed and the critical role of collaboration in the process. Ready to inspire your inner visual effects artist? This episode is your launching pad. Whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, this episode is a goldmine of insights that you don't want to miss.

Buddy 'Find Me' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWTNbDkalAQ

Cal Scruby 'Kobe with the Fro' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv5kEDlZM-g

Big Sean 'ZTFO' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Dy-czTjAc

Bridging Hip-Hop and Visual Effects: The Journey of VFX Guru JR Strickland

Paul DeNigris: What can independent filmmakers learn about visual effects from hip hop music videos? Find out from VFX supervisor and director J. R. Strickland on this episode of VFX for Indies.

Hi everyone. Welcome to the VFX for Indies podcast. I'm your host, Paul DeNigris, visual effects artist and filmmaker and the CEO of Foxtrot X Ray, a boutique VFX studio. With me today on the podcast is visual effects artist, visual effects supervisor, director, Entertainment renaissance man, J. R. Strickland, who I've known for a number of years.

Welcome to the podcast, J. R. Yeah, thanks for having me. Congrats on the podcast. Thanks. So J. R. and I met 2015. So it's it's a long time ago in industry years. I was on sabbatical in Los Angeles. And the first freelance gig I took was was working with J. R. at a little post boutique that specialized in music videos.

And we worked on a fun project for Ariana Grande that never saw the light of day, but it was fun nonetheless. And as happens on complicated and difficult projects, all of us VFX artists on that show bonded and have been have been friends ever since. As you can surmise, J. R. Lives in the visual, the visual effects side of the music video business and has has also branched out into directing.

J. R., tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into visual effects and, your journey to, to working for some of the bigger hip hop artists working today.

JR Strickland: Man, it feels like, for one, when we met is you are dope. I was like, this guy's know what he's doing.

And it's a lot of times, sometimes people don't really know what they're doing or don't pay attention to details. So it's I feel like you stood out because it's okay. And even just with the restraints that we had. Just being able to work within those constraints. Cause you think that once you get to LA or Hollywood or something, like things are going to be like more prepared and better.

And a lot of times it's the same fixes that you, I'm sure you tell your students that is like back in the day, it's like it's the same. Problems that you were fixing from before that actually ended up making you stronger. I did. I did. Good. So when I started it's been forever.

Like when I was. Since I could remember, I just remember seeing a video camera like Best Buy and just zooming in and zooming out and being like, if you zoom into something green and then zoom out of something green, that's like a transition just really, or there will be miniatures that the grocery store and I was just be fascinated with looking at the miniature city of the town and be like, this looks like a real town.

So I think, yeah, It started planting the seeds of VFX into my brain. And then at, growing up in the nineties it's like eighties babies and then growing up in the nineties. So then you had that boom of just Titanic and Twister and Jurassic park. Like every story now that back to the future, even though it doesn't have as many VFX as people think, but it's just these stories that can now be told with the VFX.

So I gravitated towards. Hidden, not necessarily hidden VFX, but VFX that were crucial to telling a story. And then there was a TV show called Movie Magic. I don't know if you remember Movie Magic. I remember it well. Yes, and they would just say the behind the scenes on how they made all the movies.

So they would go over Hocus Pocus and they'll show how they do matte painting and the old school matte painting, where you literally paint on the glass and then put the glass in front of the camera. And now all of a sudden it looks like the sky or it looks like a set extension and then they'll do like multiplicity.

So as a kid, I was literally using premiere, figuring out how to do it. Premiere, like 1. 5 with the horse on it. It's since age, like eight, like literally eight years old, learning premiere doing a split screen and having myself on one side and myself on the other, and then I'll take a ball and I'll throw it and I'll catch it on the other side.

And that was show my, that was before YouTube, obviously. So when I show my family and friends, I'm like, this is crazy. But even the movie magic, it was like they had one version on Sundays for kids and it just it wasn't even as advanced like I needed the advance. I didn't need the watered down movie magic tricks.

I wanted to know like how the big people really did it. And then going from that. It just was going to a bookstore and then reading magazines, even though I couldn't afford all the books yet because they're like 40, you know, for the crazy behind the scenes VFX books, I'll just go there and I'll read them.

I'll read the VFX magazines And that's also why a lot of times when I can come out and give hints on how it's done because that's really how I learned is by just videos extended versions on DVD. Like I didn't want the DVD if it didn't have the breakdowns the blue rays, and it's like really using that knowledge from all these other people that have done it. And so when I went to college, I went to Columbia college in Chicago. So that's the art school, of course. And then when I moved to LA, it's I just bulldozed my way into that music video production company that we work for.

And at first I was just assistant editing. And then me and our friend Max he was doing a little bit of VFX, but we really just said, we should just start. And they weren't really budgeting for that. And they were outsourcing VFX when they needed it. But in our free time, we would just tell the directors like, Hey, we can do a sky replacement.

And there was one music video they had where they shot in this mansion in LA. And it's like a beautiful music video, but it was the overcast day. Ironically in LA, it was overcast day. And so it was like, we could change the sky. And then he was like, really? And I've been flirting with Nuke and doing some Nuke.

So I knew that you can do it. And I knew that Nuke was more advanced than after effects in terms of like sky replacements with 3d tracking and things like that. So we just started doing the VFX on the video. Now that I think about it, without really even asking the producers, we just started doing it.

And until once you start doing it, then I'm like, Oh, this is great. And obviously the video looked better. And so from then on, I was like, Oh, you guys can do this. And we just started doing more and more effects for each project. And then ironically, like I tried to bulldoze my way onto sets in LA as a PA.

Okay. But nobody was really choosing me. But once I worked with that company, we showed that we can do VFX. The first music video set I was on out here as officially was Ariana Grande's music video, and I was the VFX supervisor on that video. And it was crazy to just go from, I wasn't even a PA, to just, you are the VFX supervisor, here's Ariana Grande.

And then I'm like, I think she needs to do this. And the director's go tell her. I'm like, oh, I could. I could talk to her like I was like a year ago. I was back home, in Chicago in the suburbs and now I'm like on set with Ariana and as a VFX supervisor and it just made me realize that a lot of the work that I put in leading up to it.

Once you get the opportunity, then you can show it. You know what I mean? So I didn't have to, I've learned a lot in the role, but I just studied so much, like so much and was so afraid that people knew what they were doing and I didn't. That I just like really learned the craft and learn what to do.

And even though I didn't do some things before physically, I knew the theories. And so I would say, okay, if we do this, like it will work. And then of course you have to make it work. But and then after that it's just the connections. And so now I have my own VFX company, nocturnal effects, and we do a lot of posts and yeah, that's where it is now.

Paul DeNigris: It's a great lesson for for independent filmmakers or filmmakers coming up or visual effects artists coming up. It's all about learning your craft and then putting yourself in the situations where the opportunities will come.

JR Strickland: Yes. I've learned that the opportunities aren't as hard to get as you think it's, I think it's harder to be prepared for the opportunities.

Then it is to actually get the opportunities. Now there is a balance because sometimes you could spend forever getting prepared and not try to get the opportunities. But when I've gotten the opportunities, I've sometimes I wish I was like, Oh, I wish I was a little more ready for this, it's Oh, now I gotta figure this out. Or, sometimes there are failures, but. It's being prepared for those opportunities. So I think it's both while you're trying to get those opportunities is great, but getting really good at your craft allows you to kill that opportunity. And then people are very lazy.

They don't want to keep finding new people. Every single time they have a project. So when you kill that, you're going to be on the top of the list for the next project and the next project, you got to know how to do it.

Paul DeNigris: It's I always told my students and I actually cribbed this from one of my former students who works in the industry, the secret is be passionate, be committed.

Don't be a dick. Yeah. Be passionate. That's what makes you want to learn it. Being committed is follow through and showing up and being the person that when they say, Hey, how do I do this? You have the answers. And then not being a dick is so they'll call you back.

JR Strickland: Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: That's how you build a

JR Strickland: career.

Yeah. And I think honestly, to that point, growing up when I did, it was a lot of like team no sleep and it wasn't really, taking care of yourself is just grind, grind, get the 10, 000 hours. And now it's more about just understanding when you are tired, when you are frustrated, like maybe don't answer that call and call them back.

You know what I mean? Cause for me, sometimes it's nocturnal effects my company for, because I'm up all night, usually working. And, but then sometimes people take advantage of that and want you to work all day. And it's need to know that if I wake up early and you call me at six in the morning, seven in the morning for something, I'm going to be pissed off and I'm probably going to snap on the client and I'm probably going to regret it later.

Even though I might be. Validate into my feelings, it's like the way I say it might not be right. So I think there is an art to knowing like, Hey, maybe I'm in my feelings. Maybe I'm right, but maybe just don't respond right now. Like just chill because as artists, we get really passionate about our work.

And sometimes if they give us notes, you're like, this is perfect. I can't believe, and sometimes you got to chill and take a step back and say, okay, what are they really trying to say? And how can I communicate this a little bit better? Have you experienced that with people saying that they don't like notes or they don't want notes?

Why do they get notes? And it should just be their way. They should have the creative freedom as a director or artists.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. Obviously teaching college for 20 years, I encountered a lot of students who would push back on notes, and when they maybe got their first opportunity in the industry they'd call me up and go, Hey, Paul they're killing me with notes.

What, how do I, how do you manage it? And my response is always every note is an opportunity to learn. Yes.

JR Strickland: Yes.

Paul DeNigris: And it's, and sometimes what you learn is I never want to work for this client.

JR Strickland: Yeah, exactly. And it's It's not yours. I think sometimes we think it's ours and you're hired, but whoever's paying for the project, it's there.

I remember one group there was some younger people that said wow, they should just listen to me and it should be whatever I say. And it's if I'm paying money, I get a say in how it is. If you want to do something, how you want it, then you just make it yourself, nobody's stopping you from making whatever you want to make, but if somebody's paying you.

a budget, even if it's whether it's 100, 000 or whether it's literally 500 because this is all that artist has for a project and you're working your way up. That's a lot of money for that artist to spend 500 of their own money to something and to not let them have a say. And the result is just crazy.

That doesn't even make sense. So you got to think about it's theirs and they're paying for it and they're allowed to give feedback. You know what I mean? And the more you can do it, sometimes once you start doing it, you're like, oh, they might, they were right. Sometimes they're actually.

Paul DeNigris: I'll make a good point. Yeah. Sometimes client notes are great. They're seeing something that you're not seeing, as a VFX artist, you do get tunnel vision. I always joke because I'm not only, the VFX supervisor for my company, but I'm also a compositor and I always joke that my, the guys that work for me, they're.

Their shots get approved all the time by the client and mine get nitpicked. And it's, and I'm like, that's because they don't, I don't have me nitpicking my own shots. Yeah. Yeah. When your name's on

JR Strickland: the line and you got to do it. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. So I'm nitpicking my team's shots. And so by the time client sees it, they've already gone three, four revs before I'm happy with it.

Whereas me, I'm like V one's perfect. And then I get all these notes and I'm like, ah,

JR Strickland: sometimes the opposite. I'm like, it's not good. It's not good. I'm not good. And then. I'll see it like once it's released. Oh, that, that looked nice. Yeah. But when you're in critical mode too, it's also hard.

Cause you're in analyze, try to find the problem. So when you're getting the shots from your composite, from your compositor or art, other artists you're in, let me try to find out what's wrong mode. Cause that's when you can do something about it. But then once it's out and you're in just like entertainment mode.

That's like a different experience. So I think it's balancing that too. When it's turned that off no, it's just look at it. And it's a totality. Nobody's really looking at this pixel on the right. They're really focused over here. Like it's the right amount of. Lens blur. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay if it doesn't have the correct Boca lens on it.

Just get it out is fine.

Paul DeNigris: Ultimately what we do is a we provide a service. It's a service industry, right? Yeah. VFX. Is it? Yes. It's artistry. Yeah. But ultimately we are serving the client, right? Whether it's a independent filmmaker, a studio, a TV show, a musical artist. We are a service industry, period.

JR Strickland: Exactly. And getting your ego out the way. It's cause I, sometimes what I'll tell artists, I'll literally be on the phone with the artist and I'll tell them, cause sometimes people say, Oh, artists give all these notes and blah, blah, blah, and they're really annoyed. And so when I talk to the artists, I tell them my job is to like, make sure you look as good as possible.

So just know if I say anything, It's because I'm trying to make you look as good as possible. And usually they respond to that. They're like, I do want to look as good as possible. I'm like, and I don't want you to get killed in the YouTube comments. I don't want somebody in the comments to say, Oh, they look funny here.

Artists looks bad. And then it's crazy. So I've noticed just being upfront with the artist about your intentions, because if you're coming to them saying, I'm making this note because I think it's better. That's, but if you're like, I think this makes you look really good. Now, if you want to change it, whatever, but they tend to trust you.

Cause I do a lot of editing too. And they tend to trust you more when your intentions are. I'm serving the song or and I'm serving you or if it's a narrative, like I'm just trying to serve the story. I'm trying to stay back from it. And they respond to that pretty well.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. To me, the best client relationships are the ones where it's a, where it's a partnership.

And a lot of times as VFX artists, we do have to educate them. Not only do we have to educate them on what's possible, like you were talking about, Hey, I can replace this guy. We can fix this thing in post, but sometimes you have to educate them. Like they want a certain thing. And you're like, okay, fire doesn't move like that or whatever.

You're having to educate them. Okay. Let's figure out how we can get there and not. Not break your vision, but also not, hang me out there as a VFX artist who doesn't know what he's doing. Oh, yeah.

JR Strickland: I had a discussion, there's a music video I did, and in the video, there's a comp, but the sun is setting.

So because the sun is setting, the shadows are, so the sun's setting behind a mountain, right? So I tell a lot of people, what we do is really physics. Like you've really got to understand physics. To be a good VFX artist, especially like compositor or any part of VFX you've really gotta understand physics.

And so the sun is setting behind the mountain to the point where I used the take where the lens flare was gone from the sun so I can add it on my end. And everything was in shadow. So now the talent is completely backlit, right? But there's no shadow because. There is no shadow inside of a shadow.

Can't have a, can't have another shadow in a shadow. So I was, so they were like, Oh, it's missing the shadow. And I'm like, no, there's no shadow physically. And in their mind, they're thinking it should be. And I'm like you should and I'm like, no, because I'm using references of other things in the frame.

So you see the tree over there, there's no shadow. You see the wall over there, there's no shadow. So now if this has a shadow, it's not going to be right. And it's. And it's annoying because this is still the DP, so they understand lights and anybody else might just succumb to whatever they say because they're the DP and they know, but it's, but you're also the expert in what you do and it's I know this isn't right because there is no shadow.

Here there's a reflection, and then when you play it, I don't think anybody's ever said there's no shadow there, so that goes back into just understanding people are looking for certain things and they and what you think it isn't always what it really is. I think I had this revelation when I was.

When you start working on 3d stuff, then when you go into real world, you start looking at everything. Let's looks like 3d to you. Is the sky real? Are these trees real? And I noticed with scale, like if you draw a house and a tree or a kid draws a house on the street, the tree is pretty much the same size of the house.

The people are pretty much the same size as the house and the tree. So in your mind, what you're drawing isn't really what it is in reality, and that's why you got to base stuff off of real world references. Cause if you really go outside and look at a tree, it's a lot taller than a house.

So you're just creating this stuff based off of what you think. And not what the real world is. That's when you starts looking a little, have you experienced that?

Paul DeNigris: Absolutely. I, real world reference is. One of the best tools that we have as a visual effects artist, right?

I always talk about this, a lot of times we do a lot of muzzle flashes, right? We do a lot of muzzle flashes a lot of shell casing ejections because we do a lot of action movies. Okay. Yeah, I still every time we start a new one I look at what weapons are the actors carrying go to YouTube somebody has filmed themselves shooting that weapon Let's look at what the muzzle flash does, what smoke does, how the shell casing ejects, even though in my mind, I know this stuff back to front, I never want to be inventing it from my imagination.

I always want to go back to. Reality, and that applies to everything that we do. Yeah. And then you can sweeten it and make it better, but it's based off that reality

JR Strickland: that like really helps sell it.

Paul DeNigris: But right. Yeah. So it's, because like you said, your imagination and your, the way our memories work, we can think we remember something perfectly, but the more we think about it, the more we do it, the more we get into that sort of complacency. And then before you know it, we've drifted all the way away from reality and somebody goes, Hey, what is this? And you're like, but that's what it really looks like.

And then they show you a picture and you go, Oh, okay. Sorry.

JR Strickland: Yeah. It's like that with saturation. I feel like when you're doing saturation on a sky is like all over the place. And when you make it very subtle, you're like, Oh, this looks better. But you just hear blue. And so you just make it blue and it's what type of blue and how blue is it?

And then even your references are your references on Google from a camera, that's a XLR with heavy, or is it from another film or is it from what are your references coming from? Or, but I think references within the frame is usually a really good help and a really good indicator.

So it's Just don't throw that sky in there and have it super saturated. And then somebody has a red dress on that's not saturated and it's going to pop off. So it's using other clues within the frame to them. Make it look good.

Paul DeNigris: I know we've talked about this on a couple of projects, like on the Ariana Grande project.

And then we also worked on find me for the rapper buddy which was all green screen, the flying car which was a blast. It was totally fun, especially to see the behind the scenes footage or to see the plates where they have the car on this giant green rotisserie and the grips are rotating and stuff.

A lot of fun. Were you VFX supervisor on that project? Yeah, I was on the

JR Strickland: set. Luckily, they hit me up. That was one of those. They hit me up early which I always love. I went to, talk to them early about it. There was a talk where we almost did a CG car. Literally, the video is, the entire video, he is in a car that is flying through the air, through the clouds.

And you did an awesome job of copying that. It was such a cool project to work on because, I feel like more projects since then have used that idea, maybe not from that, but just Maybe inspired by it, maybe not, but it felt like at the time that was something that really hasn't been done like that before.

And so being the VFX supervisor and the director, Andy Hines, which is really good, it was really awesome. And the producer, Jeff. They really they really trusted me and Andy did a really good job of storyboarding, like just everything, like not necessarily storyboarding, but afterwards he gave me a PDF with the direction of the clouds where they go and all this.

So being on set really helped. And then Kavika, who I, who works with me sometimes he came with me on set and it's. It was good to have him too just in case I was second guessing myself with some of the stuff So i'll talk it over with him. He's no. Yeah, that's right. That's you know so vfx and that was I knew that we needed I knew this sounds like a nuke plug, but I knew we needed nuke for that Because of what was asked for us and then also sometimes these budgets can get tight with these music videos So you still want it to look as cinematic as possible, but it's like how can we make that?

On this, but they literally took the car, they gutted the car. So it was really light and they just spun it. And then they had them on wires. Wire removal alone with probably a, it's probably a task for a video like that, but that video I really enjoyed because people always referenced that video for, but they're like, you did the buddy I've seen treatments.

People give me. With that video as a reference in the treatments that they want. Nice. So that was, what was your experience on that? Oh,

Paul DeNigris: That was great. I really enjoyed that clips from that were on my real for a long time because we got to, again, not to turn this into a plug for Nuke, but we got to do some cool particle based clouds and Kawika.

gave me the cloud sprites, the different clouds that he had generated in in 3d. And then I was able to, put them in a particle system and build a cloud scape that was instantly customizable. And you could just change one number and it would just change the way the clouds were laid out.

Oh, no, the

JR Strickland: clouds were done by my other artists. Yeah, Abu Bakr, he did a lot of the Houdini. Yeah, you're right. That's right. This is a while back, so it's a little fuzzy. No, but you're right. Yeah, because we combined the Houdini with Clouds, with this, and it's just it was a team effort. I look at it now and I'm like, man, there's more stuff that I wish we could have done.

But again, that was a few years ago. So yeah, it's a few

Paul DeNigris: years ago and time and budget being what they are. There's always room to improve. For the most part it was shot great. The green screen was always beautifully saturated and lit. There were, we had very little.

keys. The biggest issues were, it's a car, it's covered with chrome and reflective surfaces. What are you going to do there? There's nothing you can do about it other than cover the car and dulling spray, but then you start to lose the right feel of it being glass and metal.

And I remember

JR Strickland: too just having to give you notes and it's I respect your work and I respect that you took the notes too, because It's like I'm seeing all this like everything, I'm listening to the director and I'm seeing things that you're probably not seeing So I learned on that project too that even if you're an expert and you hire experts You still gotta be like, okay, but this and then because you were able to do that It, it just made it work.

Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. It's, again, it's, you get tunnel vision as an artist, right? The longer you look at a shot, either, either the better it looks or the worse it looks, right? The longer you look at a shot, the more you're like, I love this. This is the best shot I've ever done. And then you send it to the client and they're like, what?

Okay, no this. But that also

JR Strickland: taught me though, comps myself. Yeah. I think that was probably the first project that I really was like, let me get another comp artists in here. And that, and. And I felt just as good as if I did it, I think that was the fear. I think growing up doing all this stuff yourself, you get, the dopamine rush of, I did this myself, or, parents would say, you did this all yourself and you're like, yeah.

And so what that does is it creates a system in your mind where you equate doing it yourself. With being good and being proud and that's something I'm still trying to get over like therapy has helped me with that It's like i'm I get excited because I did it myself, but at this stage Nobody really cares if you did it yourself.

They just cares if it looks good And so because I was able to let go of that and not just have to say oh I did this It's no paul did it and we did it and it looks you know like paul did the comp and We did this, which means I still have like pride in that. You know what I mean? I'm trying to, I'm trying to get better at that.

Cause I was so used to trying to do everything myself. And that is not how you're able to grow. You got to get this team around you and you say, get other eyes on it. And then with tight deadlines, like I can do some, I think then I did some of the

Paul DeNigris: cops, I think I did, I think in the 11th hour, there were a couple of shots that got added and you picked them up.

Yeah, just to help me because we were right up against the, Oh

JR Strickland: man, it was, and I remember to, I think I tell people, Oh, I remember now because there was a a weekend and then they were trying to crush us on the weekend and he was like, Oh man, I got to, and I was like, don't worry about it.

We'll figure it out. And then he was like, Yeah, people don't really say that. You remember that? You're like, people don't really say Oh, I'll take your time. But I think when you've been in that situation, you have some sympathy and empathy. And I think because I said that you was like, man, let me just, I'm gonna just stay up and do it in his life.

And it ends up working out. But I think when things aren't organized, it's up to the person that's planning it. That's your fault. That's not the That's not the artist's fault, like the compositor or whatever. It's not their fault that you're not organized. You know what I mean? If things are coming up against the deadline, I get it.

Sometimes you can't avoid it, but for the most part, you can't let other people's mismanagement of situations, make you feel bad for you having boundaries because they're not doing the, they're not doing the actual work. They're just saying stuff. They're like giving the notes and then they're living their lives.

And then you're spending. 10 hours doing that note, and you gotta, and also I feel like. If you don't have a clean mind and you're not refreshed, it takes longer and it looks bad. It doesn't even look better. You can tell that you were tired when you did it. If you just take a break and come back to it, you actually do it faster and better.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. VFX is a team sport, and it's and as a fellow entrepreneur, I know, this, it's it's re you, it's really, Easy to get into the, I can't delegate this. I have to do this part myself kind of trap. I do it all the time and people are always telling me, no, you need to delegate that.

You're right. It's your business is not going to grow if you're trying to do it all.

JR Strickland: Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. And it's part of the, it's just part of the curse of entrepreneurship, right? We get into this. We, you started nocturnal. I started Foxtrot because we love what we do and we want to do it for ourselves.

And that becomes lots of sleepless nights and lots of, agonizing over things like that and learning how to let go and learning how to go. Okay. I think I need to increase my team. I think I need to call somebody else in another expert that, you know to balance me.

JR Strickland: Yeah, for sure.

But it is a good option though. If it doesn't look how you want it to look to be able to be like, all right, let me just fix it real quick. Yeah. And it's fun. That's the thing. It is fun. It's just, you can't, it's not sustainable for every single project.

Especially the ones you want to make sure you get right.

It's just good to have other people on it. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. And when you have a client, whether it, in that case it was you were, you made it, you didn't, you never made it feel like, You have to fix this Paul. This is your right. It was okay. We have to do this, right? It was a difference between saying I statements and you statements versus statements, right?

It's the we're in this together. Let's fix this. And you were like, what, how can I, what can I do to help you with this? I was like, I need you to take this shot. Cause I don't, I just, I'm out of time and out of bandwidth on it. As opposed to on bigger projects with bigger clients, it becomes very much the employer employee relationship.

Yeah. And that's hard. That's hard sometimes because it is, it does sometimes feel like I'm going to give you a note and I don't care that it's going to take 36 hours of our life to work on that note. I just, I need it Monday morning. Whereas when you, when there's an understanding that like, this is a team sport, we're in this together.

If I fail, you fail. If you fail, I fail. And let's figure out how to get there together rather than, making it adversarial.

JR Strickland: And realistically knowing how long this stuff takes and what to spend the time on. It's do we want to spend all this time on this? Or do we want to spend time on this?

And I remember, I think there was stuff that you mentioned. It was like, look, and it's like, what do you need to just speaking up? What do you need? And which are the priorities, is this, is this the money shot or is this a quicker shot? Like where are our priorities and what do you need?

And I feel like that's probably one of the biggest things. So you can spend so much time on shot number one and never get the shot 50. It's the whole video was shot on a green screen. So we have to prioritize. Like maybe we want this, maybe we want that, maybe the reflections we want this, but that's like on the priority list.

That's like on the bottom. Yeah. And yeah, and I know we

Paul DeNigris: did have to, there are certain shots in that video that the clouds aren't reflected in the glass or the Chrome and they should be, and they would be if you were really flying that car up, that beautiful, whatever up in the sky,

JR Strickland: interesting thing about that is.

I think on the first watch you're not even watching for that because you're like wait He's dancing on top of a car. It's only on our watch over and over. I'm like, oh man, we should get a 3d car And then three, but then that would have been it. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: And and so much of it, like it's his, it's, I think the reason a lot of people, cause I, I check in on that video once in a while and a lot of people still come back to it and they're like this is one of my favorite videos of all time.

It's him. It's his performance. He's all in for that concept. And just he's totally vibing the way he's like surfing on the car and stuff like that. He's selling the reality of it. Which we could do our job, perfectly a hundred percent perfect. And if he's not selling the reality of the whole video fell.

So again it's a team sport.

JR Strickland: And like I said, the director, I love Andy Hines. He and the way he did it was just so clever and the way they edited it. Yeah. I can talk about that video all day.

Paul DeNigris: Let's actually talk about some of your more recent projects that you've been both VFX supervisor and and director on.

You sent me a list of them. I'm going to let you pick which one we're going to talk about first.

JR Strickland: Let's see, I feel like. We'll talk about the Kobe with the Fro video. So Kyle Scruby, he's a good friend of mine too. And he had this idea for, he had a song called Kobe with the Fro and was like what if we do, he just says he just feels like Kobe Bryant when he played with the Lakers and had the Afro.

I'm like let's put you in the middle of Staples Center. And I don't know why I said that, but I think it's always been my dream to do like a basketball, like CG basketball kind of arena court. So the entire video, he's just performing in the Staples center, but we shot it all on the green screen. And that took way longer than I thought it was going to take.

But I think part of it, I'll tell you the lessons that I learned. The lessons I learned is I didn't need to build the entire every seat. My OCD kicked in, and I was looking at maps of the Staples Center, and I was counting the number of seats in each row in the 100 level. And most of it is crushed to black.

And I did not need to have 10 seats in row 5. Just the OCD ness kicked in to where I, by the end, I learned how to prioritize and what to cheat. But at the beginning, my thought process was build the entire thing and then you have complete control on where you put the camera. And I would never do that again.

It's what does the camera see? and then build for that. Like for instance, even the banners, I think going in, I was like, I'm going to make the banners, texture the banners, but they're all the way in the background, and as I was going on, I said, okay the banners, these should just be a PNG, just grab a PNG, just put it on a card and then put it up and throw a spotlight on it.

And but shooting that green screen, we shot it with a jib, the camera movements, and I feel like part of me wanted to look photo real, and I was in this weird space of does it look photo real? Does it look video game y? And he was in my head a lot saying, yeah, it's going to look good. Whatever you're doing is going to look like, I'm sure you're just in your head.

I'm like, no, it's got to look better by this. The right amount of grain is this the shadow. But I'm really proud of how that project turned out. It's just sometimes you have, like you say, you have to take a step back and then just watch it. And you said, Oh, okay. Yeah, this is dope, but it's pretty dope.

Yeah. What were your thoughts when you watched?

Paul DeNigris: No, I thought it was great. Knew going into it, obviously that the staple center was VFX, but I also, after after a few shots I stopped going, I stopped looking at it and trying to try to see what you did. And then I was just wow, this just looks great.

Cause I'm again, I'm sure you were up against it time and money wise. And it looks amazing. It's like the camera movement and his integration and his reflection in the floor and all of that stuff. It just, yeah. Is it reality? No. Is it music video heightened stylized reality? Yes. And does it work?

Absolutely.

JR Strickland: Yeah. That's what I learned too is like sometimes as an artist, cause I went down this journey of studying painters before I'm like, I don't get why Picasso, like it doesn't look real. Why are people so enamored with it? And when I started doing the research, I learned that, the impressionist.

It's like it's how you how it makes you feel a lot of times not necessarily if it's real or not like what we're saying with the references those a lot of times are for photo realistic type of things but also like also the feeling that you're going for how does it make you feel so whether he is or isn't it's like we're doing this because we can create we have freedom to make it feel a certain way you know you're doing this painting not necessarily to make it look exactly like the person.

But to capture the essence or the feeling of what you're doing. So with that project, I wish I went more into it. It's just a feeling of him being here. And by default, it's going to look pretty, like pretty real, like it's not going to look so corny, but it's more about the feeling of. Of this. Yeah.

Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. Definitely gets the point across.

JR Strickland: Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: I've mentioned this a couple of times and you mentioned a couple of times budgets and schedules and things like that. And I'm a little older than you, but we both came up during the heyday of MTV when, Michael Jackson and bigger acts would spend millions and millions of dollars on music videos.

And, the premiere of something like thriller was an event and, Those days are over, right? Needless to say, these these videos are not in the million dollars, millions of dollars range anymore. And to me that, that's, the, again, the name of the podcast is VFX for Indies.

Yeah. Indie filmmaking, music videos, very much in that same mode of we, we have to make the most out of every dollar because there aren't a lot of them and we have to make the most out of every second of shoot time because we don't have a lot of days.

JR Strickland: Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: What, talk about some, maybe some strategies like going into a video like Kobe with the fro.

What are some strategies that you're using upfront maybe in pre production or during production where you're keeping that in mind. Like I don't have infinite money to burn. I don't have infinite time to spend on this. So how can I maximize the effect that I'm getting from my client?

JR Strickland: The most frustrating part is when they waste money. Like I get that you don't have money, but then they waste money because they don't have the experts. Advising them like I don't want to do extra VFX just to do it. So sometimes I would tell them this is better done. Practically. It's like really being able to work with everybody and work with the site decorator or production designer and or at least the producing director and say no.

This should be practical. There's no reason why we should build this. It's going to kill the budget. I would rather spend that on something else. So it's not always just fighting for you to do more is saying. Because it's almost the opposite some things that they think is hard isn't really hard And some things they think is easy is actually really hard to do and that's gonna kill your budget So I feel like it's with the Kobe video I just knew if it's gonna be green screen what it couldn't be is a 2d card It had to be we see him in three dimensions So that had to be a jib like we had to have camera moving You As if we were there, so the budget goes towards the green screen and making sure the green screen is high enough that we can get low angles without him clipping on the ceiling. Cause a lot of these green screen places in LA, you can't get low angles cause then you'll see this, the ceiling. So it's also, we got a green screen spot that, that like it went over his head so we can get the low angles.

And that's where, and then just making sure that you have a good team of people that track it. I had a good team of people that track the cameras. Cause like you said, we love to do this. So you think that, oh, I can track all the shots and I can roto all it. And it's okay let's spend time doing the other stuff and let's get, I feel like I'm more inclined to composite.

If I get people doing some of the other stuff, it makes the compositing a little easier, but the compositing becomes really hard when you still have to track all the shots and you still have to key all the shots and you still have to. So even if whatever your budget is or if you're indie or you can get some friends Just you can do it But just outsource a little bit of it so that you can strictly spend your time On the comp because I think a project like that because I can't I think I would probably would have been a jerk to whoever comped it because I would have been like, I can do this.

Or I want it to look, it's like saying what I know, I'm saying it twice when I could just press the button, so when it gets to that point, I might, it's quicker if I do that, but it's not quicker if I wrote every shot and it's not quicker if I. Key every shot and it's not clicker.

If I track every shot.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah let's so that's post stuff. Let's rewind back to you're getting ready to do this shoot. And Cal and his team are Going into it, asking you, how do we achieve this on the budget that we've got? So what are some as direct as both director and VFX supervisor, like how, what are some techniques or some things that you're maybe saying, okay, we have to do, we have to do storyboards or we have to plan this, or we, what are some things that you're doing to maximize that budget so that you're not making mistakes during production that rippled down into, Bigger problems in post.

JR Strickland: With that one, luckily I produced it too. So I had an advantage where the producer agree with me and Cal does a really good job of letting the artist be an artist. Like how the, yeah. Now that you're saying it, it's like, how is really much I trust you, whatever you think I need to do, I would do I'm literally telling him, okay, lay on the floor and we're going to put you on the, he's like, all right.

And he does it and he trusts you. So that opens it up to just know that. And the reason it does tie into post, because you're thinking about the post while you're doing the pre, so I'm thinking, okay, what's going to save us here. A lot of it is we're going to shoot it all on green screen.

So we're not having a crazy locations. And then the parts where he's in a locker room, we shot that on another side of the building. And and just understanding like the editing, there's going to be some parts that I'm going to edit together and cut it together. So let me make sure that I get these long sweeping shots.

It's like the more you do it, the more, what to shoot, right? Okay, let me get these long sweeping shots because I can cut between those. And if I were to do it again, I will also understand this. There's a lot of value in the static shots. I thought that I would have to have everything moving to keep the energy and keep it alive.

But some of the good shots are just where it is static. And then it's a slow pushing or it is just a low angle and it's whatever. So I think the green screen definitely saved us, but also building this before we shot it, building the stadium before we shot it and playing it, it wasn't like a, after the fact or afterthought.

So it's working in conjunction with each other on not necessarily previous, but just knowing that this is the plan, this is what we're going to do. These are the team that we're going to have and just having that in place, so it comes out of pipeline. But that project went way longer than it was supposed to.

It went, I shot way past the deadline. And I think that was cause I was just in my head, but also I was learning some things along the way. When you haven't done something before, it's like a learning curve. Even just the render farm, that was, now it would have probably been Unreal Engine, but it was just figuring out the render, what render farm works best, and how much is that going to cost, and trying to budget, because when you're doing the render farm, for those who don't know, it's just, you're not just using your machine, you're using multiple machines through the internet to render your frames.

Thanks. And you don't know how much it's going to cost until it's done rendering. And so you're trying to budget this and you're like, I don't even know how much this is going to cost, but there's no way I can do this. That's why real time rendering is so exciting because now It probably would have been Like you're probably thinking about it too how you would do it now The stadium would have built been built in unreal and it at least would have been comped live I can see through the camera what it's gonna look.

Paul DeNigris: Oh, that video would be a perfect candidate for virtual production. Yeah. Big LED wall, LED floor, flying panel for the LED ceiling. And then you're, yeah, and then the camera can move any way you want. And the unreal engine model just is in the background. And, but even if

JR Strickland: not, the LED, even if it's just the realtime key, even if it's just the realtime key and you see the camera, but then you'll have to just.

Then I would have a 3D cha. I would reanimate the 3D character to get the contacts with the floor and the shadows.

Paul DeNigris: Some stages now have the have the ability to build an an LED floor so you can Oh, really? Actually display. Oh, I gotta check that out. Yeah. And yeah, there's still always cleanup.

There's seams, things like that. But yeah, it's pretty amazing. I went to NAB earlier this year, and virtual production was in literally every booth. Everybody was showing some sort of virtual production solution, for doing all kinds of neat stuff. And that's just that it's a lot of it's for broadcast.

What it's obviously the national association of broadcasters. But like the ability for two artists, one on either side of the country, to be able to appear in the same virtual set in real time and interact with each other as if they're in the same space, like we're going to see all of that sort of stuff move into the music video space for sure.

JR Strickland: My, my advice is if you're coming up right now is to really learn Unreal. It's free, so it's really no excuse. But I think that the more you can really learn Unreal. Yeah you'll be good.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah, right on. Why don't we move on to ZTFO, Big Sean.

JR Strickland: Yeah, so that one was really small, man. We had a crew of five people.

And we shot it at his house. And the beautiful thing about that is, like I said, the director, he really trusts me. He trusts me. I'm involved early on and he says, Hey, I got this idea because we worked together on multiple big Sean videos. And he said, I got this idea. I want big Sean floating throughout the whole video.

Cause it's about him being Zen. He's I want them floating at different parts of his house. That's cool. And he's and I wanted to be one, one, feel like one take. Okay. And he's and we didn't have a steady cam. We just, it was handheld. So I'm like, Okay. And then he's and then at one point I want him floating next to each other.

Next to himself on the couch. I'm like, okay, this is getting more and more complex. And I told somebody the other day, like when you're starting off a lot of our job, we can Google or look up, right? So it's TV replacement. And you're like, Oh, how do I do a TV replacement? How do I do a phone replacement, screenplace, whatever.

Then as you ascend, It's stuff that you can't Google. It's stuff that you, they're hiring you to figure out how to do it. And that's when you got to use the tools. So like with the buddy is I want him flying through the sky. I can't just be like, how do you make somebody fly in the sky, dancing on top of a car?

You start putting the tool. And so when I want him floating, it's like, how do you make Rapper float in that, you can't do. Yeah. What would that Google search look

Paul DeNigris: like?

JR Strickland: So now and then they said and then the person I was saying it to and said yeah, you be, now they Google you they, there's a YouTube video of somebody breaking down how they think I did it.

Yeah. And I, cause I was looking on YouTube and there's like how they did big Sean. And now there's a precedence for it. And in theory, you could figure it out, but it's You're hired like when you're coming up, you're hired to be the one to figure it out, figure out how to do it. And so it's those theories and understanding physics and understanding.

That because the crew was so small, it was just me, the director DP, I think like a grip, like in a best boy. And then like big Sean's like barber and that was it. And so it felt really Indy and it felt like college. The only difference was. We actually were like, when I was in college, we were still figuring it out.

And I thought it was going to look good. And then I look at the foot and this don't look like what I thought it was going to be. This one, it was just people that was at the top of the games now shooting it, like it is an indie thing. And I think that's why it worked. But the cool thing about working on some of these projects is that you, instead of just seeing you and your friends, you're seeing like one of the biggest artists in the world on your computer.

But it's the same, it's the same feeling of before. So some of the technical parts of that video, I made sure that when we shot him, like he's floating over his pool, but adjacent to his pool, there's grass. And so we shot equal distance. I made sure we shot equal distance so that his the lens distortion of his body, like the Z depth of his body is.

equivalent. We didn't take a close up of him and then put it back over the pool because then even the subtle like distance from his nose, his ear would be off. So it's we shot the over the pool, measure where he would be over the pool and then went over the grass and measure where it would be and then put them on a green apple box.

And that way I'm just literally copying on top of each other, then adding back the shake. Then there's subtle things like the birds in the sky is stock footage that I comp into it. So it starts with these eagles in the sky and then you come down. Then I did subtle sky replacement that you can't see. And it's like all those little kind of tweaks.

Then we had the lizard shot. Then the hummingbird was interesting because we pan over, there's a hummingbird sniffing a flower and we're At first I'm like this should be 3d but then quickly realized that should be stock So it's a stock footage of a hummingbird and I wrote out the wings but it goes so fast and there's so many so much blur that it actually like Works, so it's things like that then when you go inside the house, I gotta release the breakdown I never released a breakdown when you go inside the house. The house is completely cg inside. Okay, this is actual house And then the only way to do it because the camera was moving like crazy and he has really reflective floors.

So if the floors were not reflective, I could have painted it out. If it was carpet or anything else, it could have probably been painted out. But because it was hardwood floors, you have the reflection of the light on the floor. And as you move, face, the reflection angle changes. So there's no way to paint that out.

Paul DeNigris: So you had him sitting like on a green apple box and filmed it practically, and then. And then the final comp is he's the only real thing in the shot and you've replaced the entire background with a, with the CG replica of his house. Yes. How did you guys manage the CG replica?

Did I took a lot of reference

JR Strickland: photos with my camera, and then the team that tracked the shots, they gave me a rough outlet. They always give me rough wire frames of the layout of the space, even with the Kobe, with the fro video. They give me the, they give me the green screen, as a wireframe.

So I see like the geometry of the green screen. So when I put Cal in the thing, I see the green screen geometry and where he is. So when they gave when I got the Sean footage back, I have rough where the stairs are, I have like rough where everything in the place is. It's not exact, but it's like rough.

And then I

Paul DeNigris: created it. So it sounds like you're doing, you're almost doing tech viz. Yeah, it's like interior

JR Strickland: design. It literally is interior design and finding the right materials to put over. Again, now it would be Unreal Engine. And it'll be a real time, but not real time on set, but it'd be a real time render of what the place looked like.

I will put them on a car and have the interior of his, but just finding the right textures, finding the wood texture, making sure it's to scale, finding the texture of the fridge. But yeah, I modeled so much. I modeled the entire inside of his place. Got chairs again. I have OCD, so I have to balance it.

Cause I'm like, this isn't the right chair. And I'm like, nobody's going to know what's the, it's not the right check. But that's why when you go into the house, the piano floats because the piano was CG, because everything was CG anyway. So I said, I might as well just float this. Float this piano up when you come into it.

Yeah. Yeah I

Paul DeNigris: knew the piano was cg. I didn't know that the house was cg but that's why I was like, okay, they're, they are doing a like a card projection, 3D projection paint out to paint out the apple box under him. Like I, I was trying to see the scene, how it would play out in Nuke.

It never even occurred to me that you would've modeled the entire Oh, that's awesome. That's

JR Strickland: like the biggest compliment because. It's only, like I said, it's only because of reflections, because when you, if you watch it again, you're going to, you go behind them and there's a window, like a door in the distance and it's white underneath, but it's just the reflections move and that paint out would never, it would never work.

But also, I don't know if the director knows that it's a, because I'm made sure to not tell them until cause I knew if I told the director that this is fake, I would get notes on notes. This doesn't look real. So I knew if I want to say all the background state, I'm like, oh, wait, but, oh, that does look a little fun.

That chair looks a little off this, the floor looks a little so I, I didn't tell anybody until the project was out and it was released and I still don't think I've technically told the director, but I knew. That's just stuff you learn. You agree. If you were to tell somebody something was fake, they will automatically start saying,

Paul DeNigris: yeah, it's ILM during the development of of iron man.

Yeah. Oh yeah. And , they showed John Favreau two shots, one of the practical armor and one of the CG armor, and didn't tell him which was which. Yeah. And he was like, this one, this, we need to go with the real one. It looks so much better. And they're like, you're pointing at the CG one, . No,

JR Strickland: exactly. And then Sean's sta he had the statue of that Buddha, and we had to make that float.

But it's so reflective that you can't just get a scan of it. It's a, it's like a statue that's fully reflective. So I just got some reference pictures and had an artist sculpt it in 3D and then texture that in 3D and that way we have control. But the fun part is the parts that you don't know It's reflected in the glass.

So it was like putting a glass and then reflected in that glass too. And then the depth of field. And so we ran the camera rehearsal to time, everything got out with the Buddha, they're going in, coming out, and then we place it with a C stand and then. And then did it. So there's a split where it goes from the fake.

from the fake kitchen to like the real back to the real world. But we, even though it's handheld, we ran multiple times so that we understood where we're going to be and where the camera is going to be and where the eye lines are going to be and where Sean's going to be and things like that. And that made us have the control over it.

But I'm really proud of how that video turned out. And then the cool thing about it too, is When they colored it they ran it through film. So after they colored it, they ran it through a film process. So it has like a film look on it, but yeah, the handheld shakiness. I just have really good people that are really good at tracking.

Cause that would have probably. Annoyed me, but it helps sell it a little bit because it's that. But

Paul DeNigris: yeah it's neat. The the film grain and scratches and stuff give it this homemade lo fi feel. But then it's obvious that there's a whole bunch of of really advanced techniques to pull off all the illusions that are happening in there.

Yeah. So it's a nice blend. It sounds like you guys, yeah, sounds like you

JR Strickland: guys, I'm glad we, I'm glad. It's like a magician. It's okay, you can fool another magician. Yeah. I was really proud of how that, that turned out.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. That's fantastic. Why don't we switch gears and talk about your short film, a minor, which which I watched before we recorded and I think is is awesome.

Fantastic performances, beautiful photography. And a a star turn from from your lead actress, who I think we're going to see some interesting stuff from in the future.

JR Strickland: Yeah. We've auditioned a hundred. people for that. Like I literally auditioned over 100 people for those four roles because I know how critical it is.

And my background has always been directing, like even in college, my major is filming video, but the concentration is directing. So it's getting back into that mode. You get out here and then you start advancing in your career and I just always looked up to like George Lucas and James Cameron and people that are able to have their VFS company, but also, be storytellers.

And so I had this idea, the irony is there's minimum VFX in the actual short, you would think I would make this crazy sci fi, whatever, but it's whatever just serves the story. But it's a story about a young a young girl, 16 years old, who wants to be a singer and her parents don't really understand what she's trying to do.

So she takes matters into her own. Her own hand and the benefit I had is that I'm able to have connections now that I didn't have before, like working in this industry and working with people on some of the biggest music videos and projects in the world, then you just get people that really are good at what they do.

And so Anthony come out of, he's my DP and he. And then I also have a story for each part of it. So with the cinematography, I want to have a story. So I wanted to make sure, when she's doing her art, it's very colorful and it's very vibrant. But when she's not doing her art, it's very monochromatic and it's very dull.

And it's very, and so you see hints of, Even when she goes to her room, there's a little more color in her room, but it's still dull. It's not until she goes out into the world, whether it's the opening scene or whether it's in the middle, where we really start feeling these, this vibrance to it.

And I know a lot of times with, Independent projects and short films, there's a grace that we like to give people, we like the graded on the curve and I didn't want it to be graded on a curve. I didn't want to say, Oh, it looks good for a short film where it looks good for an indie project.

I just wanted to say it looks good. You know what I mean? And that's why having Vanda, my producer, Vanda Lee on it, it's just everybody that helped. It's even what we were talking about before with the sound, like making sure I have somebody that's really good with the sound mixing on it, making sure that the resources that I built, I used to work out of that music studio and just using that as a resource.

And just honestly, like people just believing in you. Supporting you and friends and family and like my girlfriend at the time making sacrifices. It's everybody kind of pitching in and then that what you're creating in your vision is actually like Literally employing people and like allowing people to live out their dreams.

So I'm really excited to, to do more of that. I have some features that I'm working on and a feature that it's just tough because there's just levels to it. So there's okay, this feature will be this budget, but this feature, will be this budget is making all of that work, but the response to a minor has been amazing and now it's released publicly.

So I encourage everybody to just. Go watch it and let let me know what you think. But like everybody that's watched it, we had a screening in Chicago and we had a screening in LA. And one of the biggest compliments is afterwards, they're not talking about the techniques first. The first conversations are, Oh man, like the story, and then we get into, how'd you do it? But one of the biggest compliments is that the first reaction is, The story and we really dive into that. So that's what I'm

Paul DeNigris: proud

JR Strickland: of.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. It, I think it, it works fantastic as a short because you really quickly endear the character to the audience. Yeah.

Like we, we really, start to feel for her and maybe it's because I'm an artist and I've had those conversations. Across the table, I imagine some of that comes from comes from autobiographical sources, having that conversation are you really going to be an artist for your life?

JR Strickland: Don't

Paul DeNigris: you want to do something that's going to pay the bill?

JR Strickland: Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Having that conversation. So immediately I was like, I was in her corner rooting for her. And I saw where the story was going, but I was hoping and crossing my fingers. I'm like don't take the story in that direction.

Yeah. You did, but where you twist, you put a twist on it was her. response to what happens to her.

JR Strickland: Yeah. Yeah. And it's and it's it's what comes first to, things could be different if this happened and these could be different if this happens. And sometimes there's anxiety and feeling like something's going to happen and you don't know if it's going to happen or how it's going to happen and how they're going to respond to it.

So it's just keeping that at the forefront and really just focusing on the story. I feel like sometimes I try to write a theme, but sometimes it's better just to write the story and then let the theme just happen. And it's these are the events that happen and these are the dramatic events that happen.

And you just follow it along because you really are rooting for her. Yeah, you're really rooting for her. Do you know which shot is CG in there? No. There's a matte painting in there. There's a matte painting. Of it's the car and then it's the city and that city is completely matte painted because the location closed that night and so we had to shoot at a park and so at the park, it's just trees.

And then there's a lot of Roto. There's a lot of Roto and a lot of and so what I did for the map painting is first I had a picture cause it's supposed to be looking up over LA. First it was just a picture, but it looked weird. Then I had to make the picture look really grainy and really bad.

Cause you know, obviously like it's that night. So there's a lot of grain. It still looked a little off. So what I did was me and my friend went to fly a drone. We flew to drone where that picture was taking of the city. And then so I can get the twinkle of the lights. So the drone quality wasn't high enough to just use the drone, but it was high enough to get the exposure of the lights.

So then I overlaid the drone on top of the picture. And so the lights dance because all those are the lights from then, but the rest of it is clear because it's a picture. So that's the top, you know what shot I'm talking about, right?

Paul DeNigris: Yeah, I do. So that's I, and again, I bought that as . They went up on Mulla and shot the classic Lala land shot.

And that's

JR Strickland: frustrating that nobody know, like it's good that nobody knows, but it's frustrating because I had to wrote so much. But it's at such a crucial part of the movie that it has to be an invisible effect. . And I feel like that's where sometimes. It's fun. It's stressful.

Cause you're like, why am I doing the most crucial part and emotionally part? And it has to be a hidden effect. But what we was talking about with the cow video and stuff before, when you're planning something and you're trying to figure out how to save money and how to make it economical, and honestly, it will be way more dangerous to shoot.

At an actual overlook where people can get hurt, you can fall, like it's not enough space. So it was cool just to have a park that we had all the space we needed. And then I replaced the background, but Roto in that is Roto. And that is no joke, but even just, I'm really happy though. I had the lights twinkling because that, that, but that goes to the references when you're looking at a video and you're like, why does this look real?

Why? Cause it's not moving. We see that when people use CG trees, if you use a picture of a tree. Like none of the leaves are moving and then another if you get a 3d tree some of the leaves move just a little bit And it's like that subtle thing my friend who I talk to all the time He catches those things.

He's not even necessarily a vfx artist He's just my friend, but he'll say man. This looks fake because the trees ain't moving. He's right? Yeah, that stuff doesn't make a difference

Paul DeNigris: Yeah, it's the the details that the audience often won't notice, but they'll notice if they're not there.

JR Strickland: Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, people can really relate to this. I showed Jay Shetty the the film and he immediately was like, man, I relate to this cause like my parents, it's whatever, when you're following your dream and following your goal, that's what people notice. That's what people relate to.

So as for anybody with a dream, pretty much that can relate to this story and you really do root for her and she, her name is Hanani Taylor. She's amazing. She, and she really has that voice. Like in the auditions, I made her sing Whitney Houston and some of the other girls in the other room almost just walked out cause she was so loud and so voiceless and I was like, she's amazing and props to just the whole crew.

Cause they're dynamics and working together. Yeah, I could talk about it forever, but go check it out. And definitely let me know what you think. It's just a minor lookup, a minor movie on Instagram, a minor movie. com or it's on Vimeo. Yeah. Just let me know.

Paul DeNigris: I will include the links in the show notes for this one.

I will. My, my last thought on a minor is you, it's a really textbook example of. Making the story specific and by making it so specific, you make it universal.

JR Strickland: Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: I'm about the furthest thing away from a 16 year old, but I really rooted for and identified with it.

JR Strickland: I appreciate that.

Like even hearing people's perspective, like what you come from also and affects how you view it, like my grandma, when she watches, it feels a certain way. Her relatability from a parent standpoint, sometimes. Women's point of view from the little girl, sometimes men's point of view where they don't understand what's going on.

I've had that too. It's like, when does, when do things start to click? And depending on somebody's personal experience, they're like starting to click right away. They're starting to click later. You know what people are hoping for, what the reality is. It's it all depends on the person's experience.

So I feel like. In a way it's a film, but I like to think of it as a piece of art as well. It's like an art piece where you can interpret it. And I'm trying to get better at that, knowing what am I writing that might be more commercially accepted in terms of a feature or whatever. And then what do I want to live as just a thought provoking art piece and get out of my head on, is this good or is this bad?

It's not no. This is going to, when people finish this. They're going to think about this, and that is it. The goal of this specific project or just to create, tell us, tell a good story. So I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Thanks. And you are obviously a storyteller every piece that you do, whether it's, making a music artist float through his CG house or telling a personal story.

It's all storytelling, right? We're pushing pixels around, but ultimately we're telling stories. If we're not connecting with the audience, if we're not helping the director tell the story, then we're not doing our job. Yeah. So kudos, kudos to you. Jr. Thanks so much for being part of the show.

I really appreciate you spending your time and sharing your insights with the audience. Again, I will put all of Jera's links. and links to the music videos that we've discussed and to his film A Minor. I'll put those in the show notes. And if you enjoyed the show, if you're watching on YouTube, if you wouldn't mind hitting the the like and subscribe button, and also leave me a comment, if there's something you want to ask JR, or you want to ask me, or you want to see me cover in a future episode.

Please share it. If you're listening to the audio only version of the show on one of one of the multitude of podcast aggregators out there, please leave us a follow and a star review and let us know what you think of the show for VFX, for indies and for everybody at Foxtrot x-Ray, and for JR Strick net Nocturnal Effects.

I thank you so much for your time. All right, peace.