Indie Horror VFX with 'KillHer' Director Robyn August

Get ready to dive into the world of indie film with our guest, Robyn August. Robyn is the director of the darkly comedic slasher film 'Kill Her', and in our conversation, he pulls back the curtain on the steps he took to bring this film to life. We explore his unconventional start in the industry, the inspiration he drew from Mark Duplass' SXSW keynote speech, and how he turned the tables on the classic slasher film setup. Robyn also shares his experiences in creating his first feature 'Party With Me' and the unexpected twists that took 'Kill Her' on its unique path.

Shining a spotlight on the technical side of filmmaking, Robyn delves into the importance of practical effects and how VFX can enhance a scene. He discusses some of the challenges he encountered, such as working with a real head for a scene involving a head crush, and how he had to adapt when things didn't go as planned. But beyond the challenges, Robyn also shares the joy that comes from being part of the creative process, from planning shots to seeing the final product. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding each department's role on a film set to work more collaboratively and successfully.

It's not all about the technicalities, though. Robyn shares his thoughts on the importance of enjoying the filmmaking process and viewing it as a privilege. He talks about how crucial it is to remember to have fun, despite the pressures of deadlines and the quest for perfection. We also get into the nitty-gritty of indie film distribution, the struggle of getting a small movie out there, and Robyn's future projects. So tune in, whether you're an aspiring filmmaker or an indie film enthusiast, for some valuable insights and a whole lot of passion for the art of filmmaking.

KillHer Official Trailer: https://youtu.be/67PfI_vyFt0?si=WkFvvfk0NebOMu8K

Indie Horror VFX: A Deep Dive with KillHer Director Robyn August

Paul DeNigris: A group of unsuspecting young women head out for a girl's trip, camping in the woods where a sadistic killer may or may not be waiting for them. A classic slasher movie setup, but with a darkly satirical twist in Robyn August's fun and gory horror comedy KillHer this week on the VFX for Indies podcast.

Today with me is Robyn August. The director of a project that we recently got to work on called KillHer. It's an absurdist, darkly comic throwback slasher movie. It's a ton of fun and we had a blast working on it. Welcome to the podcast, Robyn. Thank you. Thank you for having me right oRobynin.

Tell tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what your career has been about how you end up in this crazy business that we call

Robyn August: Yeah, really

seriously. I don't know. It's definitely something that just came naturally to me. This kind of always been something I just can really fight against, like as much as I probably would, it'd be smarter to have a regular type job and I'm sure, and growing up in my house, I was probably like the only crazy person that had was in the clouds.

And so I felt like an outcast, but I just, I just started. Really started with drawing. I drew a lot. I wanted to work for like an animation studio where like Disney of a lot of stories of people I know that have had the same trajectory. Once I started to find out exactly what it entailed, I was like, I don't want to do that.

I don't want to draw the same photo a million times. I just stole my dad's camera that he had, and I just started making movies with my friends and it just became natural. I don't even know exactly the exact date or time that I. that this is what I wanted it to do, I'm a 90s kid.

I grew up with all that, all the awesome movies and stuff and drive ins and all that stuff. Yeah. KillHer. Is this your first feature? Remind me. No. This is my second. My first feature I just really grassroots, did it all on my own put it on a credit card. And I I listened to I wanted to make a movie for a long time, but I was doing a lot of music videos, a lot of short films, and it just seemed out of my grasp until I had like money, like most people imagine.

And then I watched a, which I recommend any filmmaker that's thinking about making a feature film to watch is a South by Southwest keynote speech by Duplass Mark Duplass. And he just talked about what are your excuses? There are none cameras are cheap, find your friends, find the locations you have and work backwards and just write the story around what you already have.

And so that's what I did. So it's not necessarily the first movie I'd wanted to make. more dialogue driven, but it was a movie that I could make. And so I just decided just to do it just to, get my feet wet and just go for it. And it turned out pretty good. It's like a, it's a dark comedy.

But it's not genre. It's more just, a slice of life. Gotcha. And what's that,

Paul DeNigris: what's the title on that one? It's called party with me, right? Yeah. Why don't you give us a quick synopsis, the thirty second elevator pitch of KillHer. Oh

Robyn August: man. It's a absurdist throwback to slasher movies.

In the eighties campy and, but it has a lot of fun twists and yeah, it's just it's a little bit of a wink to the audience of people that appreciate that time and era, like the Friday the 13th and stuff like that, where horror movies weren't taking themselves so seriously, they weren't so deep, I love those films to the Babadooks and the hereditaries, I love those films, but It's been a while since there's been, it's starting to happen now a little bit, but it's been a while since like people just made horror movies that were just.

stupid fun, like just good fun rides and not nothing too deep.

Trailer: Would it really be that hard for a homicidal maniac to just kill them?

If this is one of your stupid jokes, you think I'm lying? We have to stick together.

There was an incident up here yesterday involving Ed Rogers and he said somebody shot him in the leg.

Paul DeNigris: I loved that it, had The classic setup of a bunch of girls in the woods being potentially threatened by a killer that may or may not be there. And then lots of red herrings and lots of really cool twists that I will not spoil.

It does not go the way you think it's going to go. And the there isn't the cliche, the cliched final girl that, that sort of thing, because Because the would be victim turn, turn everything on its head. It's a it's a blast.

It's a lot of fun.

Robyn August: Yeah. And that was a tough part going into it too. Cause I was, even when we were talking about the script before making it, I started falling into the same trope ideas of this is what has to happen. And then I went, wait a minute. Like the way that Tom wrote it, it's testament to Tom Keys, who is a writer is that he, I think he wanted to flip a little bit on his head.

So I was like, Oh, that is actually. And so once I eased into that, I was like, okay, this is cool. Cause it's not exactly what you think you expect something, but you don't get what you actually think you're getting. So that was cool. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. For me, working on the visual effects, I got I got a sense of the story, but not a ton of it.

It wasn't until I saw it at the screening in Hollywood where it all came together for me. And I went, all right, this is a lot more fun than I expected it to be. And it's, and there's a lot of really great cutting humor. Pardon the pun, but it's like the humor is, it's sharp and intelligent.

And yeah, and it's, yeah, it's you it's like you said, paying homage to those older style horror movies, but doing something fresh with it. And it's it's a blast. Yeah. That's awesome to hear. Thank you. So how did the, how did that project come about? Where did the How did you connect with Tom?

How did you connect with with Mark Stolaroff? Mark is a producer friend of mine who actually brought me onto the project. Like, how did the, how did that team come together? Love

Robyn August: Mark. Yeah it's crazy. Like it's, this is what I talked to a lot of people about my, my thoughts on especially this business, but most of life, but.

It's 33 percent drive, 33 percent talent, 33 percent luck. And probably the extra little percentage goes to luck. And I think it was just a lucky thing that, all fell in the place because of what, who I made contacts with and what I did that led to this. But basically I met Ron Roger, who's one of the producers and he's a small part in the film.

He's a known actor. He's got a lot of pretty, pretty big IMDb credits. I randomly met him in Mexico at a bar and I just recognized him. And I thought he was someone I knew, like my, one of my parents friends, cause they have a house out there. And he's no, I don't know your folks.

And I was like, I know you though. And ended up being, because I saw him in like stranger things and a couple other shows, he's on Power Rangers. We just became friends and hung out in Mexico. And then I had this small little project. It's a feature that I'm trying to get made. That's I made like a proof of concepts or film for and I just thought he was right for one of the roles and he said yes.

So we worked on that project. He saw what I did with that project and he just became a kind of a fan of mine and said, I like what you're doing. I believe in you. And so he randomly met these new producers that just moved to LA that were looking to make films. And he said, I have a director that I think is great.

I got a friend Tom, his friend, Tom, he's known for a while as a writer. Can we just meet and talk? And we just threw out some ideas and Tom already had a ready script ready to go. And they said, we like this. It's a horror movie. It's good genre. Let's do it. And so I just fell into this job. I didn't even know if I was going to get it, honestly.

In fact, I was told by the producers afterwards that they were thinking about. Maybe hiring someone else because they didn't think I had enough experience at first. But the feature film that I did, I think really showed them that I could do a feature, even though it wasn't genre. I had some short films that were genre.

So I think they saw the short films and knew that I could do the genre and that's what I was good at, but I also could complete a feature film. So it all just worked out that way. But I don't think I would have got the job if I didn't do the first feature. boggles my mind. It just reminds me to tell people like, just make a feature.

It doesn't matter if it's exactly what you want it to make, but it will be a calling card to show other people that you could do it. Yeah,

Paul DeNigris: That's great advice. Yeah. So how did VFX get used in killer? It's, it's pretty obvious. It's a horror movie. We're going to, we're going to hit all the, the sort of VFX cliches, if you will.

Yeah. Blood, guns, all of that. Just talk through some of the VFX that, that that were necessary to help you tell the story.

Robyn August: Yeah. Obviously I'm a huge fan of practical effects. I love practice, but I love the adding to me, VFX are so cool in the things that you can't do in camera or adding to practicals to just.

Just, it just, it's like the icing on the cake, if I had my way, I would do all practicals and then add VFX to that. And I think it just comes across just more real and authentic. But, on a low budget horror movie, you can't do much of that. We did as much as we could.

So VFX really saved a lot of the scenes that I wanted to, make bigger or do certain things with and and with that whole thing I've been doing my own VFX just learning on my own, like after effects and stuff out of necessity working on music videos and stuff.

And I love VFX. I love just learning more about it. I'm definitely not like top tier professional, but I aspire to learn as much as I can. But yeah yeah. With this film I I knew going in I could only do so much in camera and then I had to do more in, in post, gotcha. I dunno if that answers your question.

Paul DeNigris: No, it de it definitely does. What what factored into, because as you said you've done some VFX on your own. And I've seen some of your stuff. I've seen some of your work and some more recent project that we'll talk about later. You obviously know what you're doing. What prompted you and your team to bring outside help onto killer?

Robyn August: Oh it's just a lot of, it's a lot of work. So I knew that there was going to be. As far as the budget went, I knew that there was going to be certain scenes I really wanted to do some cool VFX on. That I knew that we probably couldn't afford. So I basically just said, I'm going to do as much as I can for those scenes.

Even though I would rather have a Foxtrot or, whatever, another company has people working on it that are really good at this stuff instead of me. Cause it's just more extra work that I'm not even getting paid for. So I just want to make it the best I can as the director.

But so I knew I had to do that. And then there was certain things I just didn't want to have to do. It's just a lot of work. And I just didn't, I was running out of steam at that point. I was like, I'll work on these big things that I have to have. That we probably can't afford.

And then all the other stuff, can we please get some help on this? And that's when we Mark introduced us to you. That was like a huge help because there's so many other things I had, I was working on as well. Besides. Besides finishing the film, just trying to work other gigs to pay the bills.

It's I can't, it's too much. Yeah, I'm grateful that we were able to have some budget in the in post to be able to get you guys on.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. So right on. Like I said, it was a, it was great working on the project with you, especially because you having some visual effects experience you communicated really well with us in terms of what you wanted.

And I felt any of the more complex stuff that you asked us to do, you had already planned for, you had already shot things in a certain way. Can you talk about that? Some of the prep that you did, cause one of the gags that we did, but again, without giving things away, there's a character whose head gets crushed by a, by an SUV.

That was probably the biggest shot that we did for you was the head, the two or three shots involving the head crush. Can you talk about how that was planned out and how you shot

Robyn August: that? Yeah. I, because I have, some experience, especially on music videos of pulling off effects sometimes, and I'm sure it's with everyone you think you're doing it the right way and you realize in post Oh, I should have done it this way.

And luck, but luckily if you keep the camera rolling, sometimes you can catch things you need. That you can use. And I've done this many times where I was like, I kept it ruling in this shot. I can use that because especially when you like miss coverage, like I didn't shoot this way, Oh no, he'll find another scene that you did shoot that way and go I'm going to use that now with the head the whole plan was to get a, cause it's, can't be, I like it when you show that it's fake to me.

I think that's fun. Cause I'm a huge Fangoria fan. Growing up as a kid, I just. I don't need it to look too real. I just want it to be like a shouting moment in a theater. That was awesome. Like I have more appreciation, not just for the gore in the movie, but what it took for someone to pull that off in camera, I think is fascinating and fun to me.

So I, we had our one of our producers who's also our first AD. He had a friend that worked at a place they do actual it's for medical reasons, they actually create real, it's not a VFX for films, it's An actual real head with the way that the head would the muscles and blood would be and all that I forgot what exactly it's called, but he had access to getting two heads And so I was like, all right let's crush a real head so I prepped it to have the actress there and then set it up like we normally do not moving the camera In a certain way, get her out of the scene, put the head there.

And then I was just going to post, add the body or whatever. Problem was, is that the head wasn't exactly look like her at all. Really? The hair wasn't even the same blonde color and we were rushing that day. Cause it was actually a, I talk about this a lot, but the, on the film, that was the craziest day.

We shot 52 setups in one day and it was all the stunts. Yeah, it was the blood effects, the stunts. We had steadicam that day. only day we had steadicam. It was crazy. And we were running out of light. And we had to get this last shot before the the sun went down. And so we were rushing. And we put the head there.

Backed up the car. I put, I did the whole green screen behind her head. We backed up the car to go. I was like, this, we only got one shot. It's gonna crush the head, right? Oh, we had one more. We were like, we have two shots. We didn't think about the fact that we were on a softer ground.

So when the car ran over the head, it just pushed the head into the ground and didn't crush the head. And yeah, it was It was a bummer. And I was like I'm going to probably have to VFX a lot of that. The one good thing we got out of it though, is that it did spray blood out the head that I was able to, we were able to use in the VFX, but the head itself, I think we just took it completely out.

It just didn't work. Except for that one shot, the one that, You did on the other angle. We shot, we had two shots going at the same time. We had a profile shot wide. So that one we could use the head because it was a little too far away that you couldn't tell. So it still was worth it.

It's just the one straight on the head was just not going to work.

Paul DeNigris: And we ended up. Yeah, on that shot, because you're mostly seeing the top of the actor's head. Yeah. We were able to, stick her in there.

Robyn August: Yeah, you added the body in. Yeah, we added

Paul DeNigris: the body in from your, your I guess what you would consider B roll.

Like you were you were rolling. And I don't think you necessarily intended to ever use that angle 'cause you were favoring the straight on one, but you had this angle of her laying there in position. And we were able to, I want, I wanted,

Robyn August: I was planning on using that angle Oh, okay.

As a cutaway, as a, like a possible cutaway if I needed to. And also when she reverses the car, I was like it'd be better to. And a lot of people, when I did the VFX of for her straightforward, when put replaced her head. I just wanted for a split second, and I liked how a lot of people in the screening were like, I didn't think you were going to show it.

I was like, yeah, I was like, they're stoked about that. Yeah, but yeah, you guys putting the body in there was like, cause I, that was when I was like, I don't know how I'm going to do this. Like putting the button, the other angle, getting her real body in there, but you guys pulled it off. It was awesome.

Oh, thanks. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: So yeah, it ended up being a bunch of different pieces because we had the. The truck and the practical head and her and you had and the light changed over time So there was a bunch of color matching to get everything to fit in the right Color temperature and all of that and then a lot of little additional And a bunch of warping on her body.

So as the truck hit her, like it pushed her into the ground and mashed her and changed, like twisted her a little bit. And then as the head spun. Splatters. And then when the truck backs up, we had to do the same thing. So you could definitely feel like that, that static body was being moved around by the vehicle as it went over.

Yeah, that was a, it

Robyn August: was a fun part. That was the toughest part with the shot that I did looking forward with the head was like trying to figure out how the body, like you said, how would the body would warp to a tire. Cause even though it's for a split second, if it's just, If it doesn't have that feeling it feels, you can still look at it and know it's a VFX, but it's cool.

But if you don't do it to the way that it feels more naturally it'll just be jarring. That was dumb. I don't know, Birdemic or something.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. You have to feel like the vehicle transferred some of its momentum into the body and so she was transferred.

Yeah. And those are the kinds of shots I like where it's it's not super obvious how we have to tackle it. It's you as a director say, this is what I want. Here's what I shot for you. And you've shot all of these pieces and handed them over. Now make it awesome. Like that's where I thrive.

Is things like that, where you have a vision as a director and it's up to me to, to meet the level that you set everywhere else in the movie and achieve something cool and not throw your viewers out of the film, yeah, that's, yeah,

Robyn August: I agree. I'm the same way too. I love a challenge.

Especially when it's that's why it makes horror movies so fun. It's it could be challenging, but it's just fun. It's just, it's we're make believe killing people. It's awesome.

Paul DeNigris: Running around in the woods with friends playing make believe killer. It's just,

Robyn August: we had to remind ourselves speaking of that moment of the day that we had to do 52 setups, like we had to run from one one set to another, and I was with my DP Isaac part and and that was the craziest day we've ever had in probably our lives.

And we're running with gear and he just looks over at me and he just says, this is the hardest I've ever worked in my life. We're panting. And I was like, I know, man. And I'm thinking, as soon as he says that, he's he hates me for getting him this gig, but then he just turns back to me. He's but this is the funnest I've ever, I love this.

And I was like, I do too. It's like a weird, it's you're, it's hard. It's a struggle. It's blood, sweat and tears and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, like this is our job. We're running in the woods, playing make believe with knives and killers. And it's did we ever grow up?

This is amazing. Like it's, I don't know. It's a cool feeling to when you have that on a set. I think the last two films I've had with all the rough times has always been like a moment where. You remind yourself and went this. What I'm doing is awesome. Like I get to do this, I'm not sitting in a cubicle all day long, even when you're editing, you are, but you're still, you're creating something it's something, I don't know.

It's a, it's an amazing Industry in that sense, it's it is a job and there's a lot of work but it's just something so fulfilling about it because you're collaborating with so many different artists and people from, pre to post to, to the actual production.

It's just a cool miracle making, making a movie,

Paul DeNigris: absolutely. That's a great way to put it. It's a cool miracle. Yeah. It's it, this, We do work hard, but it is an absolute privilege and and always fun to, to work in this industry, ultimately when client deadlines loom and things aren't going well and you've got a shot you can't solve, it's It's helpful to remember we're not digging ditches for a living.

We're playing make believe pushing pickles around and and we're privileged to, to be able to, make a living at it. Yeah, it's

Robyn August: and it can feel like that. I know a lot of people that work in like post houses my ex wife and everything, and she had some of the stuff that she'd have to deal with.

I'm like. It's cause, cause there's so many deadlines, especially with like TV. It's it has to come out where it's you're a doctor. It's you're on call. It's but we're, it's movies. Like we shouldn't be killing each other. It's not saving lives. You could say metaphorically, maybe it saves some people's lives.

They'll say that, but it's not, you're not like doing heart surgery. And sometimes we treat it that way where it's I think people should still enjoy their life and not kill themselves over this stuff. It is what it is.

Paul DeNigris: When I was teaching, I always used to say to my students on set, if we're not having fun, we're doing it wrong.

Robyn August: Yeah. Yeah. Funny enough, that's what I remember when we first showed up to the camp before we were about to film And we all sat in a circle and everybody introduced themselves, even though, cause we talked to each other, mostly on zoom because it's during the pandemic still and everyone went around and they talked about what they wanted to get out of things.

And a lot of it felt very I want to do a good job and we're going to make a good movie and we're going to come together and all this stuff, but nobody was talking about like the fun element of it. So when it got to me at the end, as the director, I was like, I just want to remind people. Before we go into this, know all those stuff, the rules and like the safety rules and all this stuff.

And we all got to, grab things. If we know it's a small budget thing, all that stuff's great. And we need to know that, but at the same time, never forget. What we are doing is we are kids running in the woods, making a movie. Please have fun. Cause if you don't have fun, I'm not going to have fun, and everybody claps. Everybody loved that because it's like almost like they forgot about that part of it. It became such a job and it's so intense. Like we've got to, we'll have 12 days and we have to, it's but we can still have fun. I don't want to do this unless we're having fun.

I'd rather I could do another job that pays more money if I, I'm doing this because it's fun.

Paul DeNigris: Absolutely. Yeah. Amen. So what were some other challenges other than the the, this head crush? What were some other challenges on killer that VFX helped with?

Robyn August: Definitely the, the gun muzzle, flares and stuff like that.

Like certain masking and things like that. I could do that stuff but it just takes time. And so it was helpful for you guys to help with a lot of the, cause there's always little mistakes like, Oh, that thing was in the shot or, this was different and we didn't have time.

So you need to do your best. Some things you have to let slide, that's the hardest part. As a director that I get a lot, cause I'm a perfectionist. So I'll see something. And most people like, no, one's going to notice that. I'm like, yeah, the one guy is that's like me.

And then I'm going to look like an idiot to that one guy. Yeah, it's, I had my first movie. I had a shot where I put the, it was two different takes of the same scene, two different angles. And I, the, he had a Starbucks coffee cup and it was just. One take it's like on the other side of the towel and although it's on the other side and it just drove me crazy and everyone was like, let it go.

No one cares. No one's going to see that. And I'm like, but I see it. I see it. Yeah. You gotta you need to there's a saying that I love. It's a art is never finished. It's just abandoned. So you just need to let it go, let it go. Yeah. And we'll find it, find what is more important, right?

Like what people really will notice. And I, and that's why I trust, I love working with, people like you, like VFX artists or other editors, like my editor Chris Grell, who worked on the film. Because you guys have you see so many things and you work on so many stuff that you can Bring me back down to earth and say, Hey man, no, one's going to see that.

I know we see it, but trust me, I've done this for a long time. No, one's going to see that. And I'm like, okay, cool. As long as I have that, a little bit of that reassurance from other people that know what they're doing and they've done it a lot it's a good feeling to be like, okay, I'll let it go.

Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Right on.

Robyn August: Yeah. And you had a couple of those with me, I think I think so. I think so. I was like, yeah, you're right. I should nevermind.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. There does come a point sometimes in shots where we're, we're pushing that we're kicking that one pixel around and it's like, all right, the audience is not going to see what you're seeing here.

Robyn August: Yeah. Yeah. But I'm still like, I'm like the Jordan pill, I'm like, Oh, the little hidden thing. Nobody saw or cared about a little Easter eggs. And that is

Paul DeNigris: nice. Yeah. Were there things as you guys were developing the story and developing the plan to shoot the film in pre production, were there things that your VFX experience changed or or altered or maybe you said, Hey, I know we can pull this off and VFX.

So let's do it this way, or let's change the scene. So this happens because I have this really cool effects idea that I think we can execute.

Robyn August: Yeah I definitely approached it, based off of just, my experience of what I know I could pull off. That being said, I, I'm, I've never worked in like a major post effects house.

I don't even think I've ever had, I think I had one music video where I had a A supervisor to help or something that was doing post that was actually there to help and knew what they were doing. So that was what's interesting about it is like I, I did it the way that I knew that I could pull off, which made me think if I can, then obviously someone that's like on your guys level doing this forever could pull it off.

But I also was like, I hope I'm doing it right compared to your workflow of how you guys work, right? Because it's, it's different. It's probably certain things that are the same in a professional scale, like workflow and stuff, but it could be different places. So I would always, I would have loved to have met you guys and talked to you before we shot the film to know what was best for what you needed.

That would have been better, but I just did it the way that I thought I could pull it off. But at the same time, I've talked to some other people and that's definitely a good thing because of my experience, because. There's a lot of directors that have no experience and they shoot it completely wrong.

And then they go, just do it. And then it's huh, I can't. You didn't shoot it. And I've even had that when I've worked on effects for other people where it's yeah, can you do this thing? And they sent to me and I'm like, I can't because it's just the way that you, I need this and you don't have that.

And so I tried to do my best to try to give you everything that you would need that I thought I could pull off possibly. But yeah, it would be much better to have pre pro with you guys before. And that's what I'm hoping for on more future films that we have enough money and resources and time to really pre meditate things.

And so everybody knows What they're dealing with going in instead of Hey, just here you go. Deal with it,

Paul DeNigris: yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. From my own experience, so I made a feature years back and because I was primarily a VFX person, there were times on that set and as much as I hate the phrase, we'll fix it in post.

Yeah. There were times on that set where I said no we'll handle that in post and my cinematographer. We, he didn't, he wasn't really aware of everything that we were capable of. And so he looked at me like for real. And I'm like, nah, trust me. And then when he saw the film at the end, he was like, wow, okay, I should have never questioned.

Every time you said we will handle that in post, you guys did that. And then some, you know, so having that preparation changed the way I directed certain scenes. And it also changed the way like I acted as a producer. So there were times where it was like. Oh, this wall is super blank.

We need to fill it out with stuff, but there's no time, no money, and we have to film. All right. I'll deal with that later. And the d the DP was like, for real? What? .

Robyn August: Yeah. I hadactually had same, I had that same experience. My an older DP that I worked with you wanna her name was Nana and she's really great.

I, she didn't know too much about post. And so when I, cause she was mostly just, cinematographer, she's like in that world. And so she didn't really do too much of post production. Once I would tell her director to shoot it a certain way, I just remember like it was a few times she would just look at me and just go, but why, and I was like, because I'm trying, and I can't explain everything.

And we have a time limit. I'm like, just, please just shoot it the way I asked. And she's That's dumb. And then she would see the final product and she'd go, Oh, I see. I see why you shot it that way. Okay. That was cool. So I'm the same situation where some people just don't understand why you're doing that because they don't understand, I'm coming in it, into it, not just as a director, but as an editor and VFX person.

So I'm looking at a different way than maybe someone that's just coming in as direct as a director. I can foresee what I need. Okay. And no, like you said if I have to add that in post, it's like it's probably easier if I shot it on a locked camera instead of moving it around. That's going to be even harder to, try to make that happen.

You can, I'm sure. You guys have done some amazing stuff, but I feel like it's whatever's going to make it your life easier or whoever you're doing the post easier is probably the best way to shoot it.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. Or, if the camera's going to be moving, take 30 seconds and throw some tape markers up on the wall so that you can track it and write down what lens used and things like that.

And so you're a really good example of somebody, of of kind of the type of indie filmmaker that that I love working with because enough. To know how little if that makes sense, right? Exactly. Yes. Enough to go, okay, this is what I need to provide to my VFX team, and this is how I have to shoot it.

And even if you haven't we didn't have conversations about killer until after production had wrapped. You were coming at it from an educated perspective, right? You knew a little bit about. The tools, a little bit about the techniques enough to fly without a VFX supervisor. The problem becomes when filmmakers haven't educated themselves enough in that area.

And they watch behind the scenes footage from, Marvel or whatever. And they say, Oh, VFX can do all of that. So what I'm asking for shouldn't be all that difficult. And they don't realize what you're not seeing is all of the work that the VFX supervisors on the marble set did.

And the, the different plates they shot and the witness cameras that they scattered all over the green screen set so that they can see all these different angles so that they, they could track when people are moving a certain way. And all of this stuff they're missing all of the the little nuances of the process and all they see is.

Chris Pratt on a green screen, white Chris Pratt, in front of some space scene, yeah, it doesn't connect that. Oh, there's a whole bunch of other stuff that gets us there, and so you being of, Somebody with a little bit of VFX experience.

You like, you understood that. And that was great.

Robyn August: Yeah. And I think that's, I always give that advice to any director that I've talked to. Cause I've talked to a lot of young filmmakers that have had they heard me on a podcast or read an article and they were making their first film.

And so they would hit me up and try to ask me questions of which I, I'm always glad to to try to help any future filmmaker give any advice that I have that I've learned. And that's one of the things I always tell is say, it's I had to do this out of necessity to make my film.

I couldn't ask for help. So I had to learn how to edit on my own. Everything, all the resources are out there for you. And to be the best director you can be is to know a little bit about everyone's job from onset, being a PA to doing your own wardrobe being, doing your own makeup.

Whatever you need to do, learn a little bit about that. You don't have to do that. It's too much. You wanna hire the correct people for that. But when you're on set, you will, the experience you've had of knowing that stuff will make you a better director because. You'll be able to work with those people better because they'll say, I need this amount of time.

And you go, you know what? You're right. That's not how much time I've done this before. That's I'll give you that time. If you don't know, you're going to be one of those tyrant directors. That's I need it in five minutes. Cause you don't. Understand what you're asking. And so I always recommend that everyone where many hats, if they plan on being a director so that they can be a better director on set, working, collaborating with other people in departments and stuff from, pre to

Paul DeNigris: post.

So that's that's fantastic advice. Two, two of the directors that I look up to as as visual directors, james Cameron. Robert Rodriguez, two guys who are very hands on, they'll jump in there and do. Everything. Yeah.

Robyn August: Fincher as well. Yes,

Paul DeNigris: Fincher also, cause he comes from the music video world, the commercial world, he, again, very very used to being hands on.

And that's what makes those those directors makes their films immersive and cohesive, avatar doesn't happen unless James Cameron knows. A lot about all of the different processes that go into making an avatar, yeah. I'm not saying every filmmaker needs to, dive to the bottom of the ocean to be able to make a movie about the Titanic, but it's a good model.

If you want to use certain techniques, In your film, learn about them, practice them, you directors are taught, take acting classes, take screenwriting classes, learn about story learn about color theory, maybe learn about lighting. In this modern era, learning about VFX, learning about AI, learning about, all of the different post production tools.

It that's, it's just, it's part of the gig now, in order to be a true Renaissance filmmaker, you've got to be able to communicate with every team member that you bring on.

Robyn August: Yeah,

Paul DeNigris: exactly.

Robyn August: And also in the opposite sense too, it's like you could. I'm not saying like every single person that's on a set in every department is great either.

Sometimes you'll be on set and somebody will be combative or they'll say something like you can't do that and you've done it and you're like I know what you can because I've done it. And then that way you can get that across of like it's not always that you're being the problem because you're not understanding that department.

Sometimes it's like the part department's not doing what they're supposed to be doing or stepping up their game. And now that because you've done it yourself, that you can do that.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah.

Robyn August: So it works both ways. And it's not to say that, you're making a. You're not trying to get into a fight or anything.

You're just being, you're like, you take the person aside, listen, I know that you could pull this out in five minutes cause I've done this before. This is what you have to do. If you don't know, you can tell them, and then maybe they learned something, so I think it's all, when you're on a set and you're working with different departments, I think everyone's coming together to try to make the best thing.

And we could all learn from each other. And I don't think any. Idea is a bad idea. But you should still feel like you can stand your ground if you know something and you, and 'cause that person might just be using their ego or they're stubborn or they're having a bad day that you give an opportunity for them to learn something.

And and I'm learning every shoot that I'm on. I learn from different departments, certain things, and some departments I work with, I go. They complained the whole time and they didn't do what I knew I could have done myself. And so I'm just not going to hire them again. No fights, nothing.

Hey, thank you. Here's your check and never going to call you again,

Paul DeNigris: Yeah, hopefully those are few and far between.

Robyn August: Yeah, it's not many it's but there are you know You get also that's another thing too. Is that there's always a saying like find your tribe because It really is I try to do as, as much as I can to make sure that my crew and everyone is taken care of and that they're not killing themselves and all this stuff.

But at the same time, if I have a crew member that it's literally just a paycheck for them and they don't care at all it bumps me out. I want them to be happy and proud of the movie and that's what I love about KillHer is like the whole crew, everybody was like family. And we were all so excited to see the premiere where they, we were, I don't think we were supposed to all go up on stage, but we did.

Cause we were like, everybody made this movie, man. And everybody from Kelton, the, the practical effects artists just everyone department, Chris, the editor, we all got up there and we were all just so proud of what we pulled off for what we had in 12 days. And everybody felt like they had, they brought a piece of themselves to the project.

So it was a really cool feeling. It wasn't just it's just a job. This was like, we became a family, which, and those are the best shoots. Those are the absolute best shoots.

Paul DeNigris: Yeah. The the camaraderie among you guys was tangible at that that Hollywood premiere that it was, yeah,

Robyn August: it was, everybody killed it, man.

There's not one person on that crew that I would hire every single one of those people. Again, everybody was amazing. And that's very rare sometimes, so from what I've heard, I, this is my second film, but I was like, I'll just keep them. I'll just keep shooting with them. Every movie.

Yeah. If I can.

Paul DeNigris: There's a reason why, the Finchers and the Camerons, they work with the same tribes of people over and over again, because they all grow together. So as far as VFX goes and maybe post production general but VFX specifically, what are some things that you would do differently going into your next movie?

As far as, things that you learned off of the experience

Robyn August: on killer the things I would do differently or the things I would want to do differently. Sometimes I still don't have a choice. But yeah, like I said earlier, it would be great to have a lot more. Pre pro with not just like producers, like we had a lot of pre pro, but it was like we couldn't, we didn't have enough money, so we couldn't force people to come scout this, camp that's two hours away for someone that's not getting, it's just, you can't do that.

And so if we had more money and resources and great to have more pre pro and be able to like, no, Hey. Like we said before I, I'm gonna need this amount of VFX shots. Can we put this in the budget? Can we get some pre pre-production meetings with whoever we're gonna choose? That would be great.

Just to have things, I'm still very even with the script, I like improv and I like I like to feel what it's like on set. Something's changed and I feel like a lot of times when it does change it's better than how you foresee it, but. It's always best to be as prepared as you can and then throw it away if you need to.

So I would just would love to have more time to be able to prepare for every element that we had. But that, like I said, that takes. That's a bigger budget. I've been, I listen to a lot of podcasts and a lot of filmmakers that are working on a million dollar films and they still, it sounds like they're in the same, they're in the same exact group as me.

It's they don't have enough time and they don't have all the stuff they need. So I think I would just be happy with getting a little bit more on the next one. And then the next one, a little bit more, I would be okay. As long as we're like slowly getting a little bit more would be awesome. If it gets less than, we're back to I'm just going to animate my own stuff.

I can't do it.

Paul DeNigris: Time and money are always the enemy. It doesn't matter

Robyn August: what your budget level. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's you think that, but I hear all these things. Stories from directors working on million dollar movies that are like, I didn't have, I w I didn't have as much resources, the same thing.

It's just on a bigger scale,

Paul DeNigris: More money, which means your your reach. It's further, but your reach always exceeds your grasp, right? You can reach for the 10 million effect, but you've only got 2 million for it, right? It's that's the thing. It's when the budget goes up, the bar goes up even more in terms of what you're trying to accomplish.

Robyn August: Even this film, like to me, I've never worked on anything that was a quarter million dollars to make. And that's nothing compared to films. But to me, that's I got, I'm working on a quarter million dollar project. That's huge. And then I'm thinking, that's just so much money.

We could do this. We can get drones. We get, it's we can't do that. Can't do that. We can't do that. Can't do that. Really? I was like my first film I shot for 7, 000. I was like, I was all stoked to have 250, 000, but yeah, it goes fast, man. It goes a lot of, especially with the bigger production and working with like sag and stuff like that.

It's there's a lot more things you have to handle. Just to be safe and follow protocol, especially during the pandemic with, having to do the COVID tests and everything that it just, that money starts to just go away and you're just hoping that you have to keep as much as you can to put into the production and post.

But yeah, it's. It's it's interesting, very interesting.

Paul DeNigris: So what's happening with KillHer right now, as far as like festivals or distribution, where, where is it, where's it going to land?

Robyn August: We finalized the deal with Dark Sky Films which is a pretty reputable horror genre distributor that I followed for a long time they put out a lot of first films.

I believe they own Texas Chainsaw Now the rights to it, or at least the the DVD distribution or streaming. But they've done like a lot of really cool indie horror films that I've followed. So I've known them for a while. So I'm pretty stoked to work with them. But yeah they just acquired it.

So they, they took it to Cannes to try to get some international. I think they're still in the works on that. So they've just been working on the new trailer, a new poster possibly, which thankfully they, which is, I will say this to any other indie director, it's if you're going to get a distributor work with someone that will let you have input.

Because a poster and a trailer matter to represent the movie that you want it represented. I was, we were really lucky to, that Dark Sky was one of those. They were like, we will, they're good at what they do. Like I've seen their trailers and their posters, but they will let us approve it or say, do you have any notes?

And so that was really great to, they allow us to to have some input in that. So right now I think they're working on that stuff. I don't know, obviously we're going to be talking to a publicist soon and whenever they're going to start announcing certain stuff, they've already announced that MPI is, was shopping it.

So it's already had an article about that. So I could talk about this stuff, but but yeah, we don't know exact dates yet. Hopefully this year we're going to try to get in some more festivals, I believe. So yeah, we're just working with them and just figuring out when when it's all going to finally get out there or if there's any other big events and fun stuff coming our way with the film.

So

Paul DeNigris: great. Yeah. Make sure you keep me posted so I can let the audience know where they can find the film when it when it does hit distribution.

Robyn August: Oh yeah. Yeah. That's another thing too is this indie game is even if you have a publicist you got to do all the marketing you can on your own too.

To get it out there. It's just a sea of content. Everyone, I'm sure you're going to be, you're probably going to email me back like Robyn, stop. I already know. Stop sending me stuff. I'm going to annoy everyone. It's no, watch it.

Paul DeNigris: I want to hear, I want to hear it. I want to hear where it goes and all of that sort of stuff.

I'm I'm a Robyn August fan and a KillHer fan. So to keep the info coming,

Robyn August: hopefully it'll play. I'm hoping it'll. If we could still get into I think they were talking about possible theatrical, but we don't know. It's still, that's a kind of iffy thing right now. It's, it could be not worth it, but at the same time, movie theaters are hurting right now.

So it could still work out to have a small run. But it would just be really cool to play. Cause I'm out here in Prescott and you're in Phoenix, right? So it just be really cool to see it in the theater out here in Phoenix and bring my grandma's out here and she probably want to see it on the big screen.

That'd be fun. Yeah, that would be great.

Paul DeNigris: I did work on a film last year, two years ago that had a similar budget. And they did they did a small theatrical run. Then they went to streaming. Then they got picked up by a cable network and it's, and now they're getting far in distribution and it's all just been snowballing and it's all based on the quality of the project.

And a lot of this sort of, grassroots effort to find the audience. Yeah, so it's doable. It's definitely doable. The cream always rises to the top, right? The good material will find its audience. i'm thoroughly convinced that KillHer will find its audience and And will it will take off in places that you would not expect and through avenues that you would not expect

Robyn August: Yeah, and also I mean you were there we had we sold out at screen fest and then we had an encore that almost sold out and, we're working on this movie and we're trying to make it the best we can, but until you see it with the audience, you don't know if it plays well in that setting.

And it did, it was a great theater experience. I just hearing people like. Gasp and laugh and cheer. And I was like, Oh man, I just I missed that theater experience and some films don't need it. But I felt like our movie, I feel has some weight to be, to do okay in a theater setting. I think so.

It'd be really cool just to have a small run or something, or maybe they'll let me like rent out a theater in Phoenix and I could just throw my little party. And. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: Our local theater Shane Harkins, they're big supporters of of indie film. They sponsor the Phoenix film festival and lots of other indie events and can't praise them enough.

So they're definitely they would be, I think they would be open to it if you brought it to them directly.

Robyn August: Yeah. Yeah. I was also I was listening to a podcast with Kevin Smith and he owns that Small cast theater. And he even said, he's email us, we'll show your movie. And I know I one of my favorite theaters, Alamo draft house, like you could rent out a screen there too.

A lot of these theaters, if you call them up could show your movie, but I just don't know if it's like. Dark sky is going to put any money towards that might just be on my own or if they'll let me, but yeah, it would be pretty cool. Absolutely.

Paul DeNigris: Absolutely. We'll keep us posted. Yeah. So what's next for you?

You you sent me a little preview of a project that you're working on like a home brew on your, it seems like it's on your own kind of kind of thing that I think has a lot of promise. Once you talk to the audience a little bit about that.

Robyn August: Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm working on a, actually a lot of projects, but the one, this one is a it's anthology series, but the way that I'm doing it, it's like audio visual.

I was listening to a podcast series by Jordan Peele called Quiet Part Loud, and it was like a cool little horror series, and it's all audio. And I was listening to it, and I was like, man, it'd be really cool if I could go see visuals to these stories on YouTube. And that's when I was like, wait a minute.

I know there was one one show called lore that kind of did it started as a podcast and then Amazon picked it up and then they did visuals to those stories, but it was already after the fact that the podcast already was a thing. So I was like what if I created something where it came out at the same time?

Like you could just listen to it and you could watch and listen to it. So in that sense, I worked backwards. So I wrote the story, had to be mostly narrate a narrative. But you, I created the the audio first. And then shot to the audio and it was pretty cool. And people really dug it.

And it's it's a throwback to twilight zone or a show on HBO called the hitch hiker that I grew up watching. Little mix of those two little black mirror. There's a lot of those kind of elements to it, but just just around like 10 minute short films. And I'm trying to get other filmmakers to create their own story.

So I have two other directors right now that are working on two episodes of their own that I'm like I'm show running this. It's like a no budget anthology idea that I'm show running just for like directors that are like sitting around between jobs, like I want to shoot something and they have the equipment or they're good at effects or they're actors or whatever.

It's let's create stories and then. My thoughts are that we put it together and we shop it and see if maybe somebody wants to pick it up. Or if it doesn't, we put it together as an actual anthology and we put out our own on to be or something. But yeah that's one of the projects I'm working on.

And I just sent off my first episode that I worked on that I had, I directed and wrote. festivals. Just waiting to hear back on some of them, but I got in a couple. So pretty cool. And the title again is, oh, it's called Nightwalks. The first episode is called Edith and the Empty, but the show is called Nightwalks.

And it's just a character that walks around almost at night and, Tells stories and then it goes to those stories, but that's what ties it together. Is that's this character? Between the stories that's like a Rod Serling character in a way Introducing the next story gotcha. So the narrator will stay consistent.

Actually I'm I don't really feel there's too many rules. I feel like it's consistent throughout the show at the beginning. Like he Rod Sterling like introduces the story, but I feel like the story, as long as you can hear it without needing to see it and get the whole story.

I don't care, my rules aren't, I have to narrate it, or the director has to narrate it, or actors couldn't speak the words or you, I think there's so many different ways that you could tell the story, can be understood just audio, and the only rules, I have three rules, the three rules are, audio first, So that no matter what, without seeing it, you're going to get the story black and white.

We're going old school, black and white like the twilight zone and no money. Right now I don't care. If you have money, you want to spend it. Do not spend any money. Use what you have. Because. My thoughts are if we do put it out, say on like film hub or something we don't sell the idea or whatever.

I want to share in profit. I don't want to be paying back debt. So use your skills and everything you have as your currency right now. If you have time and you want to work on a cool project and I'm giving you freedom as a, Director, I'm just overseeing it to make sure it doesn't not fit with the rest.

I'm giving you the freedom to make your own little short film within this like world. And I just don't want you to spend any money. I want you to come out of pocket out of this. Yeah.

Paul DeNigris: And you're using your VFX experience and skills as part of your, as one of your storytelling tools. Yeah, totally.

And

Robyn August: I, and that's another thing too. It's like I talked to any filmmaker that decides they want to do something. It's Hey, if you need a VFX VFX, a shot that you can't do yourself. I'll help you with that. Or you need, you don't want to narrate, you want it to be narrated. You don't want to narrate it.

I can narrate it or find someone else like wherever you, do you need help at? I will help as a showrunner to fill those holes. That sounded sexual. That's a totally different series. Yeah. We're not is this family friendly? Yeah, I'm willing I'll be there to help with whatever Any blind spots that you need help with, I, I can help you with that.

But if you want to do this on your own, I'll just. I'll just guide you, it's been really cool. And I have two filmmakers, a couple others that are interested. So I think at this point we might have a good, like between another one I'm working on, I feel like we'll have eight episodes pretty soon here.

That hopefully that'll be a good chunk to either pitch or just. Put into a little movie. So

Paul DeNigris: awesome. Yeah. So where can people find out more about night walks or any other projects that you're up to?

Robyn August: Just stay tuned. I haven't released that one yet. But it is going to some festivals.

I definitely if you check out, my social media Instagram I'm at Robyn of August. Robyn with a Y Robyn of August. And I pretty much update that all the time with projects I'm working on, like music videos, short films. I'm sure I'll be blasting it about KillHer once all the announcements come out.

Awesome. But yeah, and as far as that, other than that, I'm doing like a stupid little it's funny enough, it's a a parody of what we're doing right now. It's the podcast culture I'm creating a animated series. That I'm releasing one of the episodes on Monday called the podcat podcast, a podcast for Tom cats.

And it's a, it's an animated cat that does a podcast with celebrities and stuff. And it's like an adult swim satire of a podcast culture. It deals with a lot of AI. I'm actually using AI. To help create real art, to also then make fun and poke at ai art . It's very meta.

It's very meta. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. So

Paul DeNigris: at Robyn of August, I'll I'll make sure I link that in the show notes for the episode.

Robyn August: Yeah. And then if you wanna check out that'll come out on Monday. I think it's, I think it's just called at pod, PAWD, cat podcast. Yeah, you'll probably get a kick out of it.

The first episode he interviews Albert Einstein, but he doesn't realize he's been dead since 1955 to like towards the end of the interview. That sounds like

Paul DeNigris: fun. Sounds like fun. Robyn, thanks so much for spending the time. Always a pleasure to talk to you. I look forward to seeing everything that you've got coming up.

I look forward to hearing more about future release for KillHer and and look forward to collaborating on your

Robyn August: next

Paul DeNigris: one.

Robyn August: Yeah, man, of course. And we need to hang out. You're too close to me, man. We gotta, I gotta next time in Phoenix, we gotta. Get some coffee or absolutely something. Make a movie.

Paul DeNigris: Absolutely. Come on down. All right. Right on. So thanks. Thanks again, Robyn. Thank you to my audience for tuning in. Hopefully you learned something from Robyn's experience, make me KillHer. And as always, I'm Paul DeNigris for the VFX for Indies podcast. Please, if you enjoyed the show, please and subscribe.

And if you've got any comments please share them. I want to hear from you. I want to know what you're liking about these shows. What. Kinds of questions you'd like to see answered by future guests and all of that. So I will see you next time. Thanks so much.